The NEW Hostbill store. Let's talk about it.

[Patrick]

I have no issues here with that using Chrome also on both the "customer" side and admin.  Chrome is the only browser I use, so i can't comment on any other right now but for now Chrome seems good.  Scroll follows the chat progress for me at least.

[Lawrence]

Still scrolls up to the top for me when the chat refreshes. Very difficult. I'll look a bit further into it.

[edit]

Try testing chat and wait a good 15-30 seconds for the chat to refresh. (Do this after you have about 10-15 lines of chat text)

[Patrick]

Still scrolls up to the top for me when the chat refreshes. Very difficult. I'll look a bit further into it.

[edit]

Try testing chat and wait a good 15-30 seconds for the chat to refresh. (Do this after you have about 10-15 lines of chat text)

Hopefully you figure it out.  If you do, let me know.  I'm curious what it might be for you

[Lawrence]

Hopefully you figure it out.  If you do, let me know.  I'm curious what it might be for you

1. Tested in Google Chrome (Windows)
2. Tested in Firefox (Windows)
3. Tested in Internet Explorer (Windows obviously)
4. Tested in Firefox Version 21 I believe (Debian)
5. Tested in Firefox Latest (Ubuntu)
6. Tested in Safari (Windows)

Absolutely no difference. Extremely strange, I'm gonna be posting a bug about this so we don't go too far off topic here. I'll post it if I can't get it resolved, and I'll post a fix if I do get it resolved.

[TommyK]

Since 4.6.0 this is no longe an issue for me, it was before that. I'm not sure how I can help, I guess you already tried clearing the browser cache and template cache.

[nibb]

I was also shocked by this, but before upgrading I downloaded the version version and did a file comparison and everything is still there.

There is a news announcements about this and it says current clients will get updates for free. But NOT new features. So this may not be useful for some that purchased hostbill specific for an order page or module.

Honestly I don´t understand if this refers to the chat plugin or all of them:
You're still free to use mentioned modules – those become paid for new customers only.
Bug fixes will be provided in future for both free and paid versions. New features will be introduced for paid versions.

From what I see, Kris will keep the modules and features for current customers, bug fixes, but not new features build into them.

So what exactly are the yearly updates? For the core? Because it seems everything is paid extra now.

Don´t get me wrong, this model could work for him but this is not why I purchased Hostbill and im sure neither did you. If you remove all this order pages and extra modules, hostbill is basically left with nothing, so what exactly would we have purchased?

There is something that is also spinning in my head. Kris is "supposed" to be overloaded with work but then he makes things even more complicated for him. Having to babysit every module, feature, order page, etc as extra is going to cause him tons of work and conflicts with users that have them free, paid, etc. This license model is so over complicated now that its counter productive to him and new customers.

So basically we do not get a single new module or feature for free anymore. I can understand this, but new features to things we purchased in the past should be grandfathered because otherwise he is taken away privileges of your license.

So basically since all new modules and features are build into modules and are paid now, what is the point of keeping upgrading?

[Lawrence]

There is something that is also spinning in my head. Kris is "supposed" to be overloaded with work but then he makes things even more complicated for him. Having to babysit every module, feature, order page, etc as extra is going to cause him tons of work and conflicts with users that have them free, paid, etc. This license model is so over complicated now that its counter productive to him and new customers.

So basically we do not get a single new module or feature for free anymore. I can understand this, but new features to things we purchased in the past should be grandfathered because otherwise he is taken away privileges of your license.

So basically since all new modules and features are build into modules and are paid now, what is the point of keeping upgrading?

Very well said. He's just added a lot more work for himself, and his users since they now have to manually update each and every individual module / orderpage as well. Overall, productivity for both sides (HostBill and End User) has dropped by a huge margin.

The only sense I can make of this is he will not get as many bug reports from new clients as they don't have these paid modules / order pages now. Other than that, it's not worth it. He is losing his bug reporting user base.

[Patrick]

I also have to say well said Nibb.  It's very true.  One thing i wanted to touch base with that you commented on specifically is now that (and i'm sure we all can agree) ALL future modules, order pages, applications and so on will now be "premium" what is the point of upgrading anymore if we have working stable versions now?  Leaving us no motivation to continue paying for annual updates.

Judging by how he/they put just about every order page as "premium" i'm going to guess that not 1 single future anything will be included with our updates.  Future updates of Hostbill will continue being supposed bug fixes (even though they aren't fixed as outlined by tallship with the wordwrap).  I think this is absolutely counterproductive and i'm glad you brought it up because it really does hit home when you think about it. 

His plan for an online store is a great one, to an extent.  He can't place EVERYTHING as premium and sell the core at a premium price.  So really, we're all looking at 4.6.0 for the long shot unless it's to do with a bug fix that we need or i'm wrong and new basic features will be included that may help a business of which i doubt will be included anyhow.

[CBlade]

When i saw hostbill im really enjoyed, then i starting considering buy it for my small vps hosting, for $599 (bit high, but ok) then suddently all features that i loved, will cost me $3,597.35, damn, was too late, cant buy it anymore, theres any change to get old license type?

[Patrick]

I wonder what the legalities involved are by us packaging up the order pages and live chat ourselves and creating download links online as they were free when we purchased and it's not our responsibility to visit hostbill daily to look at changes to the software offering.

What i'm saying is this.

I've made some heavy modifications to a few of the order pages over the last few months, i shared it with another hostbill user on WHT about 60 days or so ago. 

[CBlade]

I wonder what the legalities involved are by us packaging up the order pages and live chat ourselves and creating download links online as they were free when we purchased and it's not our responsibility to visit hostbill daily to look at changes to the software offering.

What i'm saying is this.

I've made some heavy modifications to a few of the order pages over the last few months, i shared it with another hostbill user on WHT about 60 days or so ago.

Developer toolkit access
Access to dev toolkit is available for old customers only (anyone who signed up before 2013-05-24)

[Patrick]

Developer toolkit access
Access to dev toolkit is available for old customers only (anyone who signed up before 2013-05-24)

THat's the developer tool kit.  Not what i was talking about.

[CBlade]

THat's the developer tool kit.  Not what i was talking about.

But this look like they dont want anymore people to develop things, i have bad feeling about this...

[Patrick]

But this look like they dont want anymore people to develop things, i have bad feeling about this...

Welcome to the new hostbill   No new developers are welcome.  We're currently planning an exit strategy in the coming months if we dislike the direction of Hostbill.  Unfortunately my understanding is they don't allow you to sell your license anymore either so our license is useless once we leave.

[nibb]

I wonder what the legalities involved are by us packaging up the order pages and live chat ourselves and creating download links online as they were free when we purchased and it's not our responsibility to visit hostbill daily to look at changes to the software offering.

What i'm saying is this.

I've made some heavy modifications to a few of the order pages over the last few months, i shared it with another hostbill user on WHT about 60 days or so ago.

This is exactly what I said would happen when Kris came up with the stupid idea of having a free hostbill version limited by modules. I posted in WHT that would not work:

1. More work for him.
2. Users would share modules themselves and get paid features free.
3. If license checks where made by features, modules, etc, it would be such a mess, and cause so many problems that users with all features could have potential license problems.
4. Paid customers would feel the product would be a cheap low product.

I think he actually considered how complicated that would be and dropped that version 24 hour later.

Now if you think about it. How exactly is this going to work up for him now?

What stops one user him posting a link or module and others that don´t have it download it and use it? Now, this is not needed because everyone here that bought before 4.6.0 has all features, but what will happen in the future when a new feature is introduced? Does he expect us to buy all modules for thousands? Yes, not everyone uses all modules, but I assume must use a bunch of them.

So how is he going to control this? It would be a complete nightmare to put licenses checks for this stuff. Just think for a minute how many people actually left WHMCS because their license checks, when it does not work your site is down.

So far Hostbill at least was smart regarding this. I think there is a buffering on 24 hour on the license check and so far at least I never read people having problems with their license, in either case it just disables the admin. So this part at least Kris planned correctly.

But imagine if the license needs to check modules, orderpages, etc. That is impossible. This will be a nightmare to manage. So this goes again to my point, what exactly makes he thing that everyone will pay every single module?

The product is scrapped now. Its a software that comes with almost nothing. I completely understand some things being plugins and extra. Because not everyone needs them and some require extra developing work. Example the Colo or IPAM plugin is of no use for those that do not own their own hardware, or manage their own networks. Or the VmWare module is of no use for those that do not use run paid VMware virtualization.

Those are examples. But orderpages as extra? How does that make sense. Its just a bunch of HTML and CSS files put together.

SMS feature is a module? That is very awkward as its very basic functionality and most software have this included. Its like selling Microsoft Office and making the option to "Print" document as an extra module.

Some modules or extra plugins are completely stupid since they nobody will buy them extra, and he only wasted his time on them instead of adding more value to the hostbill product. My point is that he already spend time on this. But since they do not come with Hostbill, they do not add anything to the value of the end product. One of the reasons people purchased Hostbill was because all the things they where offered. Now I don´t say he gives all of them in the price but now he went again the extreme line, putting even order pages (which are mostly buggy) as extra prices.

At least on the positive news, he did posted any announcements, that new prices and features do not affect current customers or previous purchases before 4.6.0

But its not clear to me if, new features on this modules will be passed to pre-4.6.0 purchases. I assume yes, otherwise most of us, could probably share the new code lines of features posted here, which would be counter productive as he does not want an unofficial method of distributing this software. It was already a bad idea of him honestly to let his forums die. But on the positive side for us, this forum is open for everyone and we are not afraid of being banned or the thread closed. Not that I ever had that problem in their forums but it was very restricted.