HostBill Changelog Discussion - Version: 4.7.6 Date: 07-19-2013

[Enterprisevpssolutions]

Added/Changed
Added: New Client area template - Full Panel https://hostbillapp.com/features/apps/fullpanel/
Added: CloudMonitoring: Ability to send email notifications instead of tickets
Added: OnApp CDN: Edge group usage price is now set in billing plan

Bugs Fixed
[module] SolusVm: VM on Xen PV node display blank bar for memory usage
[module] OnApp CDN: Metered billing updates always shows 0 usage
[module] PowerDNS: SRV host record is replaced with 0
[general] Auto domain transfers that should be triggered after payment do not work
[clientarea] Custom billing models are not used on account upgrades

[Patrick]

If anyone was curious where we stood... here you go



I asked what "version" of the software the each previous owner had.  We are 100% bumped down to "shared host" (Whatever that means) version of Hostbill if you update to 4.7.6

Edit:

Something i was just thinking about is he stated it is something "we stated on our website already".  Where does it state what we all have?  Curious if i missed this

[Paul]

oh good, he's breaking the law again. we bought software that had weekly updates and made no mention of limits to hosting type, this means not-limited. to place new limits and change update schedule is to breach contract, again. here we go again with this scumbag. infuriating. can't he just give it a rest, bloody f*ckin hell.

my point is this... there is no new version of the software, he has not come up with a new product and is selling it. we own the enterprise version, as we had weekly updates, and no limits on hosting type, and "lightning fast gui". he is advertising that those things are removed in the standard version. which would be a downgrade from our existing license, a breach of contract, and AGAINST THE LAW.... AGAIN. what is he f*cking smoking...

[jeffrey404]

Can anyone explain what this means? I have been checking my packages and module but not sure what is means:

Added: OnApp CDN: Edge group usage price is now set in billing plan

[Patrick]

Well question remains... who dared to update? 

[darksoul]

Well question remains... who dared to update?

I did, works fine for me.

I must be missing something here - what did Kris do to earn so much negative feedback from the community?

[Patrick]

I did, works fine for me.

I must be missing something here - what did Kris do to earn so much negative feedback from the community?

It's not just this small community.  It's everywhere.  Google it.  Visit http://www.webhostingtalk.com locate control panels category and happy reading.  It's talked about so much (negatively) that mods now lock all topics about it because of how much negative hype it gets.  It's becoming this way everywhere. 

[darksoul]

Okay, but why?

Kris might be changing his business model but all of my stuff is the same as when I bought the panel.

[Patrick]

Okay, but why?

Kris might be changing his business model but all of my stuff is the same as when I bought the panel.

To be honest, i'd be here all night if i had to explain it all.  It's best you go search Webhostingtalk.com as most of the larger discussions about your question reside there.  It's mainly instability, regression testing, abuse of customers, indecisiveness, illegal activity.  (For example: I'll sell you two products, you agree to my terms and i later take those two products away and lessen them to something other then what you bought), License transfers disallowed when it is law to allow it, promising things, never delivering after receiving funds.  The list goes on and on and on and on.  I'm giving you some really snap-to ideas but what i've said really doesn't even touch the surface.

[Lawrence]

All I can see in that ticket response is that it's a way for Kris to provide New Enterprise Features in the same way he doesn't want us receiving updates for modules. He's weaning us out, which is wrong.

1. He'll phase out older modules with New Modules that are "Ground Up so to say, and treated as entirely different modules.
2. He's working on an EOL for us HostBill users.
3. He's trying to start up a new cycle of HostBill clientele by offering the Enterprise License and thus supposedly gaining a new source of higher income.

That's all I can draw from that. That's all.

[darksoul]

All I can see in that ticket response is that it's a way for Kris to provide New Enterprise Features in the same way he doesn't want us receiving updates for modules. He's weaning us out, which is wrong.

1. He'll phase out older modules with New Modules that are "Ground Up so to say, and treated as entirely different modules.
2. He's working on an EOL for us HostBill users.
3. He's trying to start up a new cycle of HostBill clientele by offering the Enterprise License and thus supposedly gaining a new source of higher income.

That's all I can draw from that. That's all.

TBH it looks to me like all he's doing is trying to ween out kiddie hosts. His new business model is questionable but maybe it will work out in the long run - who knows. I maintain my own modules (made from scratch) so that's not a huge deal to me. He's confirmed that none of the features have been cut from our version of HB for the Enterprise version in ticket with me so I'm okay with that as well.

[Lawrence]

TBH it looks to me like all he's doing is trying to ween out kiddie hosts. His new business model is questionable but maybe it will work out in the long run - who knows. I maintain my own modules (made from scratch) so that's not a huge deal to me. He's confirmed that none of the features have been cut from our version of HB for the Enterprise version in ticket with me so I'm okay with that as well.

Understood, but weaning out kiddie hosts holds no ethics. If you're in business to provide services to other businesses, then you need to maintain a certain level of integrity. Changing your business plan / course several times per month is hardly recognized as professional, and would in turn make Kris look like a kiddie provider himself. He's just tossing the ball back and forth.

On the flip side, I've worked with several kiddie hosts which have grown into companies that deal in $100k+ in volume per year. Not the biggest, but most hosting providers have started out as kiddie hosts. I myself I suppose could be considered one of those kiddie hosts, but I provide services to companies that are very well known in my area. I do this as a freelancer.

Another note, there're hundreds of very well known hosting providers that use WHMCS and spend no more than $400 on their entire billing script relying on a premade template and the built in modules. Some of them make millions. Why would WHMCS hike their prices and charge for support? Because they're smart. They deal in volume, and know how to run a proper company. Sure they've been compromised in the past, but they still have their integrity.

This is not intended as a form of opposition to what you're saying, merely just a few points. Kris needs to understand that he is effectively drowning his reputation in fowl woes and complaints all over the web. Those comments will be there forever, or until those databases get wiped / domains expire.

[darksoul]

Understood, but weaning out kiddie hosts holds no ethics. If you're in business to provide services to other businesses, then you need to maintain a certain level of integrity. Changing your business plan / course several times per month is hardly recognized as professional, and would in turn make Kris look like a kiddie provider himself. He's just tossing the ball back and forth.

On the flip side, I've worked with several kiddie hosts which have grown into companies that deal in $100k+ in volume per year. Not the biggest, but most hosting providers have started out as kiddie hosts. I myself I suppose could be considered one of those kiddie hosts, but I provide services to companies that are very well known in my area. I do this as a freelancer.

Another note, there're hundreds of very well known hosting providers that use WHMCS and spend no more than $400 on their entire billing script relying on a premade template and the built in modules. Some of them make millions. Why would WHMCS hike their prices and charge for support? Because they're smart. They deal in volume, and know how to run a proper company. Sure they've been compromised in the past, but they still have their integrity.

This is not intended as a form of opposition to what you're saying, merely just a few points. Kris needs to understand that he is effectively drowning his reputation in fowl woes and complaints all over the web. Those comments will be there forever, or until those databases get wiped / domains expire.

Right, not disagreeing with you - Kris has made quite a few bad calls as of late, however at the end of the day nothing he has done has affected my business which is what matters most to me. HB has it's fair share of issues but no other billing system can compete with it - I tried a fully migration to WHMCS and that did not end well for me.

I'm interested in seeing where these changes go provided this isn't just an attempt to milk people of their money. A fully fleshed out enterprise product would be a nice change from all of the billing systems currently on the market, especially if maintained correctly. So far most of his plugins in the extension store are overpriced quick ones but then he has a couple good ones like the colocation plugin - again there is potential there as well if he plays his cards right.

[Paul]

TBH it looks to me like all he's doing is trying to ween out kiddie hosts. His new business model is questionable but maybe it will work out in the long run - who knows. I maintain my own modules (made from scratch) so that's not a huge deal to me. He's confirmed that none of the features have been cut from our version of HB for the Enterprise version in ticket with me so I'm okay with that as well.

It's not features are being cut out, it's that we no longer get updates/upgrades to them, at all. He said to me that our stuff gets updated with the premium modules, but that does not appear to be true, and goes against what he's said in the past, and that our LiveChat won't get any updates/new features, etc. He's not weening out kiddie hosts, he's screwing current customers out of what we bought a contract for. which is illegal.

[Patrick]

Right, not disagreeing with you - Kris has made quite a few bad calls as of late, however at the end of the day nothing he has done has affected my business which is what matters most to me. HB has it's fair share of issues but no other billing system can compete with it - I tried a fully migration to WHMCS and that did not end well for me.

I'm interested in seeing where these changes go provided this isn't just an attempt to milk people of their money. A fully fleshed out enterprise product would be a nice change from all of the billing systems currently on the market, especially if maintained correctly. So far most of his plugins in the extension store are overpriced quick ones but then he has a couple good ones like the colocation plugin - again there is potential there as well if he plays his cards right.

I can definitely tell you're new to hostbill.  This isn't to be taken as an insult, rather as a friendly laugh. 

These bad decisions are not "as of late", this game he plays has been going on for almost a year.  That time frame is not an "as of late" type thing.  Let's say he is trying to ween out the 'kiddie hosts'.  We all thought this on the official forums when the price jumped to $399, $499, $599, $999, back to $499 then $599 just for the core, then $199 for addons/modules/templates then $299, now $399 for modules/addons/templates.  Funny part is i know i missed quite a few price changes.  During the first few price hikes we assumed it was to 'ween out the kiddie hosts'.  The prices kept changing, erratic behavior with pricing and modifying terms of service to restrict us even further.

however at the end of the day nothing he has done has affected my business which is what matters most to me.

This is your biggest issue.  Ignorance, and it's a big issue today in the real world.  "Meh, doesn't matter to me because i'm not affected...........until you're affected.  THEN you'll be here complaining.  So just because it doesn't affect you now, don't think for a moment his business is right legally or that you're "safe".  After all there is a REASON there is at least 10,000+ posts (negative mind you) about Hostbill.  So please don't think for a moment, every negative post you've seen are "kiddie hosts".  I'm very invested in my business and we do our own modules in house.  Tons of people are heavily invested.

HB has it's fair share of issues but no other billing system can compete with it

Actually Ubersmith can crush it.  Either you don't understand regression testing or use many of the "modules" included such as the vmware 5 module we all received then it was taken back and was his first paid module (illegal by the way).  Hostbill knocks out 3-6 bugs per week on a system that has a lot of bugs.  WHMSuite will compete with Hostbill, WHMCS now 51% owned by cPanel i believe it is by shares will soon be well above Hostbill.  There are other options that are true and real enterprise solutions if your business can sustain the massive cost.  So, don't for a moment think Hostbill is the best

I'm interested in seeing where these changes go provided this isn't just an attempt to milk people of their money.

I'll say it again, you're clearly new with this sentence.  We've all been customers a very long time, since it's early days.  What i quoted you saying above is like ignoring everything you've read (if you've done proper research) and pretending you heard none of it.  It IS an attempt to milk money, this isn't blowing hot air.  If you develop you should already know this "enterprise" version with async is not "enterprise" even remotely. Asynchronous processing in PHP does not qualify a software as EAS. 

Asynchronous processing would require an entire rewrite of the framework from top to bottom.  Many people try to label their software Enterprise thinking people will believe "This is better".  KBKP Software has demonstrated ove the last 365 days that they do not understand business 101 never mind EAS.  This is not what we in the real world toss in a software and toss an enterprise sticker on it.  Thus milking for money.  Far more time, regression testing and feature sets need to be implemented in the enterprise version to be considered enterprise.  Enterprise software also usually comes with an SLA of which is not listed anywhere.  There are many reasons i KNOW this software is not enterprise quality and if you want to sip his koolaid then but all means, enjoy.

He's confirmed that none of the features have been cut from our version of HB for the Enterprise version in ticket with me so I'm okay with that as well.

I have to ask, when did you signup?  Pre or Post May 26th, 2013?  If it's post then sure you have nothing to loose.  Pre? Then what are you going on about?  we no longer receive updates to live chat, vmware and ALL of our templates.  So sure you have access to them, but you do not receive updates to these. 


All said and done, and you think you're clean and clear, you simply do not understand business law and international business law.  Many laws have been broken by KBKP and therefore his business is not run like a respectable business with ethics http://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1034&context=lawfirms - This should educate you a little further on the international laws that are governed between anyone and Poland.  Essentially, you're in bed with a company with unethical business practices that breaks the law a considerable amount.  Hell, their TOS is invalid if you didn't already know.

I'll end with this.  If someone on eBay has a 10% rating because the other 90% are disgusted by his/their behavior.  Take this as a hint that the overall concenses is not great.  There are reasons why so many are upset and they aren't all so called kiddie hosts.  We started out as one of these kiddie hosts 17 years ago.  With all due respect, due diligence is imperative when using Hostbill, otherwise ignorance blinds you.