Hostbill no longer allows third-party extensions

[Patrick]

Kris must live in this forum, he's already changed:

My favourite line is:

It'll put you in breach of contract, but it's so much fun your developers will be lined up to breach your contract...

This seem like entrapment to anyone else?

I just fixed your missing /quote before i was going to reply.

I've been thinking that for some time now, that it's a lot like a bait and switch. 

[iso99]

I am going with Blesta too while my requirements are still simple. I will stay with HostBill for at least 6 months while developing custom modules for Blesta and while waiting for it to be more stable after the final release. I have browsed the Blesta forums, it seems that the developers are more accommodating and I received a reply quickly.

On HB:

The problem with the new TOS is even though the APIs and Dev kits will be available to us, old license holders, there is no guarantee that they will still develop their SDK in the long run. More over, who would we seek for help if we want to develop our own extensions? They no longer have a community forum, and certainly there are no more future third-party developers interested with HB.

[tallship]

There is some manual intervention required for parts of the migrations of customers to new systems, but it's an easy set of select and insert statements for the customer accounts to move them over to ANY new billing system.

Histories..., not so trivial, but a non-issue if you cut-over abruptly on your fiscal year end.

Hosting, probably the most invasive requirements on the part of the provider, but but to just leave customers running on a system that won't accept any new accounts, telling those customers that if they launch new services the new platform is where to do it (will cause two bills each month), or... manually moving the services little by little for each user over to whatever new platform is being used, and then reconciling in the ERP/accounting system that is fed both by hostbill and the new system....

You get the idea. HostBill could slowly just be abandoned until it is no longer needed, kind of like everybody beaming off the Enterprise onto the planet surface, one by one, until it is only Kirk left, and then eventually him too.

[thetrusteeco]

I just fixed your missing /quote before i was going to reply.

I've been thinking that for some time now, that it's a lot like a bait and switch.

Thanks for the fix patrick.
With the current 3rd Party rule, I cannot see my company with HostBill in a year.  I was willing to cut (the) Ch/K|ris(topher)(s) [whoever it is I am in business with] a break while they re-tooled KBKP but after that 3rd Party Rule...

iso99 - I think I'll be doing the same thing.  I am looking a a few Billing Systems right now, Blesta v3 looks like it'll be pretty good.  With the right moders it could be great.  My primary concern with Blesta (regardless of history) is what happens if it blows up the way HostBill did?  HostBill got too big for Kris to handle, and he had to cut back (monthly billing, free support, free updates, forums, orderpages...).  With Blesta's regular owned price of $175 I have concerns. On the other hand, if Blesta sets up an App Store for 3rd Party vendors and encourages 3rd Party app development, it would just leave the core for Phillips Data, Inc. to manage.  Nevertheless, the openness of Blesta is refreshing. 

Long term, an Open Source billing system might be better, especially if we're investing in extending it.

[tallship]

Long term, an Open Source billing system might be better, especially if we're investing in extending it.

I concur 100%

[Lawrence]

Just pointing it out, this does not apply to anyone who signed up prior to the Terms of Service update.

- No API access is limited.
- no hooks access is limited

Only limit is that NEW clients who signed up AFTER 26th may can only use modules that we provide. Thats it

To summarize, people who buy HostBill after May 26th may not use modules developed by anyone. They may only use modules developed by HostBill.

Although I do disagree with this decision, everyone should understand that it does not apply to them. (Those that have bought HostBill prior to May 26th)

[edit]

Just adding their excerpt of their Terms of Service.

For licenses purchased after 26th May 2013 KBKP Software S.C. is only allowed author of extensions for HostBill application. Extension is any PHP file in includes/modules directory of HostBill and any entry in hb_modules_configuration of HostBill database

[tallship]

Just pointing it out, this does not apply to anyone who signed up prior to the Terms of Service update.

Yes, indeed it does, yet to ensure (or even insure) that we maintain the ability to customize our own installations, I've offered what I think is prudent advice to follow HERE

We might even want to put that into one of the other areas of the board where people will find it useful as a resource for their own development needs.

[Lawrence]

Yes, indeed it does

What I meant was we may still develop and use third party modules for our own HostBill installs. Users who have signed up afterwards are not permitted to do so. Again, I disagree with this decision, but it does not apply to us.

The only way it would apply to us is that we may no longer use the dev areas of HostBill to develop modules for new HostBill users. (Not good in my opinion)

[thetrusteeco]

We get what you're saying Lawrence, and while you are being very reasonable...

It may not be a policy that is being imposed on us directly, it is being imposed indirectly.  What company is going to want to create 3rd Party apps for HostBill now?  None.  This is something that is affecting us.  This is a fundamental change to the product I believe I bought.

Now we have to each build our own apps.  Maybe a few of us could get together and split the costs, but that isn't going to be the same as a healthy 3rd Party app store, such as the one that WHMCS has.  Seriously, why does anyone ever choose WHMCS?  Not because of WHMCS itself, because of the 3rd Party integration, much of which is through 3rd Party Apps.

Besides, who want's to be in business with a guy who is only screwing us a little, but screwing the new guys a lot?  Don't you feel good to only be screwed a little?

[Lawrence]

It may not be a policy that is being imposed on us directly, it is being imposed indirectly.  What company is going to want to create 3rd Party apps for HostBill now?  None.  This is something that is affecting us.  This is a fundamental change to the product I believe I bought.

Now we have to each build our own apps.  Maybe a few of us could get together and split the costs, but that isn't going to be the same as a healthy 3rd Party app store, such as the one that WHMCS has.  Seriously, why does anyone ever choose WHMCS?  Not because of WHMCS itself, because of the 3rd Party integration, much of which is through 3rd Party Apps.

Completely understand, and agree that it is a huge burden on us. I strongly disagree with the updated Terms of Service, and feel it should be reverted as soon as possible.

It's possible (Though maybe unlikely) that maybe Kris saw a lot of upcoming HostBill modules that he wanted to slow down development from third parties so he could get his modules launched. Who knows, it could be wishful thinking but still I don't think there was a reason for this type of update.

When software is more open and freely modifiable, it's better for businesses (This is what got HostBill popular in part). With less development and potential for developers, interest is lost and the software slowly decays.

[tallship]

What I meant was...

I'm sorry Lawrence, that was my bad, not yours. When I said, "Yes indeed it does." What I meant was that I was agreeing with your assessment of the situation, as in, "Yes indeed it does [not apply to anyone who signed up prior to the Terms of Service update]" lol

Having said that, as @Thetrusteeco points out:

It may not be a policy that is being imposed on us directly, it is being imposed indirectly.  What company is going to want to create 3rd Party apps for HostBill now?  None.

That's rather disturbing. Kind of like when I attended UCSD and one of the professors in our pre-med program said he would get rid of a lot of us undergrads simply by virtue of, "Death by attrition".

Sure, we can develop mods for each other, we can develop them for ourselves, And in theory, we can hire 3rd party developers to make them for us, but that would be expensive, since there will be a quickly dwindling market considering that the only market needing such development would be dying through attrition.

Patrick, although I am sure still commited to running hostbill, has already just let his subscription lapse, indicating that without any real compelling need, he won't be re-subscribing again. I noticed a couple of others have done the same, with more planning to not renew their subs.

I'm sure a lot of people we're not even going to hear from. Why would they bother? Just retire HostBill and move on without wasting any wind over it. Etc.

I do think that we need to be concerned that now development is no longer supported, those docs will either begin to suffer from bit rot or conveniently begin disappearing, which is why I've urged anyone content with continuing on with HostBill for the time being to fork and clone all the git repos by those two hostbill entities, and consider the 3rd party repos there too, or at least watch/follow those others.... Because we're on our own.

Now here's a question, and since kbkp is hell bent on painting themselves into a corner of self-demise, I expect even if you think the answer is yes at this time, that will change in the next couple of days.

Consider this. We can continue to add third party developed mods and develop mods and share them with the pre-4.6.0 community. So what if you're not a developer? You hire a developer right? and since that developer is part of your org, you add that person as a contact in your hostbillapp.com client area as an addtional contact for your company.

Now, does that person have, or does kbkp think they are entitled to, access to the dev.hostbillapp.com area? If you haven't been there recently (since Friday or Saturday following the 4.6.0 release), then you haven't noticed that there's a new additional uid/pwd credntial requirement to be supplied in order to have access to that area

[CBlade]

Just pointing it out, this does not apply to anyone who signed up prior to the Terms of Service update.

To summarize, people who buy HostBill after May 26th may not use modules developed by anyone. They may only use modules developed by HostBill.

Although I do disagree with this decision, everyone should understand that it does not apply to them. (Those that have bought HostBill prior to May 26th)

[edit]

Just adding their excerpt of their Terms of Service.

So you guys dont need worry about this, look like im the only one here that should worry? Since i was a potential customer, and this new junk license will apply to me? Idk if i will be the next new customer, i looking for alternatives, i check blesta demo and i dont like it, sorry, im out of alternatives...

[Lawrence]

So you guys dont need worry about this, look like im the only one here that should worry? Since i was a potential customer, and this new junk license will apply to me? Idk if i will be the next new customer, i looking for alternatives, i check blesta demo and i dont like it, sorry, im out of alternatives...

I'm curious to know what would happen if someone releases a third party app for free and you were to use it. Would that void your license? What would tell HostBill that you've downloaded and installed a third party app? How would HostBill know you didn't add that functionality yourself? Just started thinking about this... A bit irrelevant to your response, but kind of makes you wonder.

I don't think HostBill can differentiate between third party apps, and in-house apps. Businesses want to customize their installs and add more functionality. I think this fact would kind of make Kris change his mind, in which case you'll probably be fine.

[electric]

Well, here's my 2 cents about this.

It is obvious that hostbill has implemented this new policy because they don't want competition to the products in their new "app store".  Of course, who is going to spend $299 to buy a chat module when you can buy a better once from a 3rd party Hostbill module developer?

The Hostbill owner finally made a smart business decision.  Right?   lol. 

The only problem is that this decision is going to end up severely impairing their business.  Does anyone thing the iPhone would be successful if apple had closed their 3rd party development doors in order so they could sell only their own apps?  That would be silly and extremely short-sighted.

So while it looks like Hostbill made a smart decision, because closing 3rd party access and development will force hostbill users to buy their modules from only hostbill.... the end result is that Hostbill is going to end up being a closed shop where the user is forced to suffer only with whatever hostbill produces and "supports". 

I daresay that within some time soon, Hostbill is going to change their mind, because they'll have gleaned free business advice from the many posts on these forums, explaining in detail what a stupid decision they have made. 

TL;DR - Hostbill made yet another stupid business decision. It would be better in the long-run for them to keep Hostbill core open, and make their revenue by increasing their pricing.  Not by closing 3rd party development access and wishing upon a star that they'll sell their own modules instead.

[tallship]

So you guys dont need worry about this, look like im the only one here that should worry? Since i was a potential customer, and this new junk license will apply to me? Idk if i will be the next new customer, i looking for alternatives, i check blesta demo and i dont like it, sorry, im out of alternatives...

Oh we need to worry alright. the vendor has provided many assurances and then done a 180 before - For example, and I don't have any screenshots handy at the moment, but one of the reasons why we purchased the software was because of the so-called thriving community of 3rd party developers and the promise of being able to customize the software.

It sounds like you haven't purchased the software [yet] @cblade, so just foshizzles and giggles, why don't you try posting a couple of questions in the pre-sales forums here and see what you reel in?

Kindest regards,