Hostbill no longer allows third-party extensions

[iso99]

Changes to their TOS:

Third party extension development

For licenses purchased after 26th May 2013 KBKP Software S.C. is only allowed author of extensions for HostBill application. Extension is any PHP file in includes/modules directory of HostBill and any entry in hb_modules_configuration of HostBill database

[thetrusteeco]

Well, that's it for me.

If this policy isn't reversed HostBill is dead IMO.

[bsmith]

Wow - that certainly is not any fun. I wonder if perhaps he meant something else?

[Patrick]

It is worded pretty poorly.  I had to read it 3 times to understand that they are disallowing third party development.  I'd ask if anyone can figure out why a software developer would restrict third party modules but i've given up trying to figure it out. 

At least hire a lawyer to type up a proper TOS.  I'm buying a Blesta license today or tomorrow (monthly) to test V3 and preparing a move in the coming months.  Hostbill is metaphorically backing themselves in to a corner and i'm not bringing down my business with them.

[tallship]

Wow - that certainly is not any fun. I wonder if perhaps he meant something else?

Considering everything you've seen so far, are you really saying you're that optimistic?

If so, then you are golden, but the naivety of anyone purchasing HostBill 4.6.0+, and then finding out they've been ripped off, well... at least kbkp has their bases covered there.

Think about that for a minute now....

That means that ANYONE purchasing HostBill 4.6.0+ can't even use EXISTING third party plugins/modules. EVER.

[Patrick]

Considering everything you've seen so far, are you really saying you're that optimistic?

If so, then you are golden, but the naivety of anyone purchasing HostBill 4.6.0+, and then finding out they've been ripped off, well... at least kbkp has their bases covered there.

Think about that for a minute now....

That means that ANYONE purchasing HostBill 4.6.0+ can't even use EXISTING third party plugins/modules. EVER.

I really want to say "Funny isn't it" but it really isn't funny.  I feel like we're all playing schoolyard games here.  (not us) but we're playing along with theirs.  TBH, i'm surprised we're all still here.

[tallship]

I'm buying a Blesta license today or tomorrow (monthly) to test V3 and preparing a move in the coming months. 

Patrick, I recommend you pick up the $99 dollar license if it's still available. I talked to Paul on the phone a couple of months ago, and then again just a few days before the public beta, and I know the price is going to jump when v3 stable is released.


That's not news, but what might be is that he assured me that my license, which is at least a year or so old, would be honored on v3 for I think a year of updates before I need to renew any subscription fees, so my ASSUMPTION is (No pundit jokes please people - I've seen that episode of the odd couple w/Jack Klugman and Tony Randall), that if you pick up the full license now, you'll be getting in under the wire for the (justifiably expected) price increases once Phillips Data releases the stable version of Blesta v3.


I'm not actually even sure if you can still buy the big license at this time though. They may have cut that off.


I can say that the beta product is sweet, although he still hasn't implemented estimates/quotes lol, yet told me it's on the todo list


I don't think Blesta is a viable replacement for hostbill though - at least not yet. It's still a billing app for webhosting, so I see it as on par w/what the BoxBilling people are doing now in re-tooling for a completely GPL'd BoxBilling in the future (as per their statements).


Blesta is good stuff for webhosting already, but I think what is going to happen is that Paul is going to be forced to quickly re-tooling Blesta 3 into a HostBill replacement for Cloud/VPS hosting providers with support for CloudStack, OpenStack, Xen, etc., - only if he chooses to go that route of course, but there is already considerable pressure on him to do so, and I believe it would be in his company's best interest to engage that development target.


For anyone who hasn't had direct contact w/Paul Phillips of Phillips Data, Inc. (The makers of Blesta), I can say he's a really nice guy, accessable, and of course... He's a fellow SoCal'er, based out of the city Irvine (the central hub of high tech industry in Orange County, California)


I haven't paid attention to whether Blesta already has support for SolusVM, because it isn't part of our business model to utilize subscription based software (exceptions required for things like cPanel), but it may be there already.


Kindest regards,

[Patrick]

Patrick, I recommend you pick up the $99 dollar license if it's still available. I talked to Paul on the phone a couple of months ago, and then again just a few days before the public beta, and I know the price is going to jump when v3 stable is released.

I'm so tired of dumping money in to crap software.  I've talked to Paul for about 3 years now and he is the easiest going over Matt (WHMCS), idiots (hostbill).  owned license with WHMCS, owned license with hostbill and now possibly more money in Blesta.  I seen Blesta V2 as a fancy SimpleInvoices with payment options and support desk.  It was pretty basic stuff.  I'm hoping V3 is a little more.  I'm willing to grow with them.  Web hosting, VPS and domains are our primary, secondary is co-location/server sales. 

$99 is a drop in the bucket quite honestly but that is the equivalent of 20+ hosting customers.  20 customers was a lot of work to establish 17 years ago Hostbill has really tarnished the industry or at least for me (billing software).  So moving to yet another is just irritating at this point but i know one thing for sure with Blesta.  We'd have a solid business to back it's software.

[UCG_Keith]

I just spoke to our corporate attorney as we have been reviewing all of the issues involving Hostbill, additionally changes to the most recent changes. Since the purchase of our software was made last year and his TOS claimed at the time of the purchase access to API's his latest "I'm as high as a kite" moment, we have ample legal grounds for a "hindrance to conduct business"  I am meeting with him next week to discuss our future plans.

Thankfully, we have screenshots and email/tickets whereby Kris made claims. Additionally, we entered into a contract for one year and the contact cannot change without legal notification of both parties. Basically as I understand it, if HB restricts third party access via any api's within the one year that we purchased the license, his polish class act will be slapped with a suit that his dog couldn't bury deep enough.

In fact, we are going to look at possible fraud charges as a 'bait and switch' method. I am sick and tired of these childish games that he is playing. If our attorney says we have the go ahead, I am personally going to consider a class action and a restraining injunction again him and his licensing servers in case he wants to play games.  I really hope that he comes off of this high he is on and realize he is potentially affecting business operations.

EDITED - I understand that if his TOS have changed in such a manner that the content and definitions are contradictory to each other, portions and possibly all of is TOS's may be nulled.

Im pissed. Done ranting.

[thetrusteeco]

UCG_Keith good luck, I'm pissed too.

I'm with Patrick on the Blesta front.  Buying v2 when we know we'll never use it, and v3 might be useful one day... but $99 isn't too much to risk I guess.  At least this company is based in the US, and Americans have been known to be litigious, so they can't screw us around 1/5 of the amount KBKP has.

Do you realize that new customers cannot even make their own extensions!?  I would never, ever, consider buying software like that.

Let's see the new customer's viewpoint:
Wow, software that does "everything", hmmm... It does cost a bit to get all that functionality, maybe I'll Google it... Bugs?  Oh well I know how to fix bugs... everything's encrypted?  Oh well, I'm sure this company will fix bugs really quick... but this WHT site, and the HBF site seem to say they don't even talk to their customers... maybe I'll just open a ticket ... $75?  Where's the Pre-sales? Still it does look like good software, if there is a problem with a app I can just make my own... no, can't do the either.  Hmm... expensive, buggy, no contact with company, and I cannot fix the bugs myself.  I'll keep looking...

Here's a question though: What would KBKP do if someone bought a HB license, and then did install a 3rd party app?  As it's a breach of contract is KBKP within their rights to just shut-down that site?

[pcardoso]

This is hilarious.

He could right a book now.
"How to kill a software company in 30 days - For dummy's"

[nibb]

Before everyone goes in a rant here please see the part:
For licenses purchased after 26th May

So it does not apply to previous purchases, still if I was a new customer I would not consider a software limited this way and here are my reasons.

One of the reasons I purchased Hostbill was because the API, hooks, extensions, etc and modules integrations.

The reason was very simple. Every company is different and eventually you will need to develop a module, api or hook into your own systems. Its absolutely impossible for the developers of any software to custom code this for everyone.

So if Hostbill is disallowing third party modules or extensions, they are putting their dead sentence on the product. What is the point of having all this API features, hook, extensions, etc?

Disallowing external modules means your product is limited, and its worth 10$ bucks. What company wants or needs a software that cannot be extended?

I hope Kris just wrote this wrong, because as a developer he cannot possible expect someone to consider the product without being able to integrate it into their systems or develop their own modules.

I think he forgets who is buying hostbill. Not kids. Hostbill is usually purchased by companies, and this companies or individuals have the NEED to integrate this into their systems. Hostbill is nothing but a billing system. A billing system that cannot talk to external modules is just completely idiotic.

Its like a hosting company that tells customers their websites cannot link to external websites. Or every page they upload must be previously approved by them.

What is he thinking with this? That people will be forced to buy this modules? What if they have a custom system to which no module will ever be created? How are you supposed to use the hostbill billing system with it?

The only reason I moved to Hostbill was because my previous billing only had a basic API features set, and it was very hard to integrate it into my own services, Hostbill was advertised as being very developer friendly with API, hook, modules, etc. And I knew it would work, I only did this partially so far, I did not finished but if he scraps this features off the software, I see no point in using Hostbill at all.

If I only need a software that creates domains and cpanel account I have 100 different options. If I need a billing systems I also have thousands of options to send invoices. The idea of hostbill was to integrate it and automate some tasks.

He cannot be seriously considering this. In particular because know developers questions are free, you can select that department in the ticket and I really think he knows he needs his product to attract developers, since the products comes without support, the only real interests would be the flexibility it provides for companies. I don´t care about all the fancy order pages and themes. I care about what the software can do for me. I think he also knows exactly that Blesta is creating an open module approach, so doing this would seriously put the dead sentence bullet in his product.

At least he was kind enough to say this for licenses after the 26 so its not affecting us. But does he really expect someone to buy the software with no change to integrate its own modules to it?

Why doesn't he just stop playing around and charges a a decent update yearly price if he needs money. All I see is he is trying to restrict the product in some ways forcing new clients to purchase new stuff. This will not work in the long run either. He needs a constant fixed revenue stream, and he can only do this with 2 options:
1. Customers keep using his product so they pay renewals and updates
2. Charge a decent update price per year. (not the ridiculous 999$, but something decent)
3. Keep selling some modules as extra (not everything like he is doing now)
4. Charge for support (this will not work if point 1 is failing, if he is losing clients, neither one will work)

Also, this is something which im scratching my head off.

He invested so much time in making hostbill modular, in order to work with modules and plugins, and it was advertised for years as being a modular product and now he is not allowing this anymore? So he is sending down the toilet all the work he created in making a true modular product? I don´t understand it to be honest. He developed this software all this years to allow third party modules and integrations and now he thinks its a bad idea?

How can be making your product more powerful and better for customers be a bad idea?

[CBlade]

I think the reason behind is in this link: https://hostbillapp.com/custom_development/

Do you want something custom? Pay KBKP or else....

[Patrick]

I think the reason behind is in this link: https://hostbillapp.com/custom_development/

Do you want something custom? Pay KBKP or else....

What i love is this part.

Who knows software ins and outs better than its creators?

Isn't that what API is for?  Developers are well versed in utilizing API therefore rendering that little statement useless.  Could KBKP create amazing modules?  Abso-freakin-lutely, but a third party community is what creates uniqueness to features.  Some things that they find pointless to make, a developer will make at mere pennies to the dollar.

[thetrusteeco]

Kris must live in this forum, he's already changed:

Do you want something custom? Pay KBKP or else....

My favourite line is:

HostBill is easy to extend and well documented, your team developer will love to work with it.

It'll put you in breach of contract, but it's so much fun your developers will be lined up to breach your contract...

This seem like entrapment to anyone else?