Third Party Modules - Possibly a workaround

[Lawrence]

For licenses purchased after 26th May 2013 KBKP Software S.C. is only allowed author of extensions for HostBill application. Extension is any PHP file in includes/modules directory of HostBill and any entry in hb_modules_configuration of HostBill database

With that said, you are allowed to be your own developer. This has been stated in the past. What if you were to use a third party module, but "Customize" it for your own needs, thus making it your own in-house solution? What are the legal ramifications of this?

Would that make it an in-house solution and thus cannot be restricted? Wouldn't that make the third party solution more of a "Framework" even though it's already complete, but since it's modified, become a permissible customized solution?

[nibb]

That would not break the license, and as far as I know the quote you posted is invalid from hostbill as well. I asked someone which knows software around and their laws after everyone here was saying they own the software and can do what they want with it. First I was told this is not the case with software.

Its not a phone, a shoe, or a car you own. You can paint your phone green if you want or throw it in the dishwasher. With owned software you are granted a perpetual life license for use, but this does not mean you can modify the code without authorization which would break the license or you need to ask permissions. Some software are allowed to be modified in some exchange depending on what the license says so.

Software is provided as it is, and usually you get a usage license, so its not a physical product, I just asked this based on how everyone says they can do what they want with it, even transfer it without authorization since they own it, well, read perpetual life license for usage, this means the license is issued to one individual or company, and you cannot issue on your own a new license for somebody else, in case you want to sell it or transfer it, you actually need to contact hostbill, so most of the topics here where assuming incorrectly things. That assuming the hostbill license tos was actually well written, which never was.

Now, regarding the quote you posted where hostbill says "For licenses purchased after 26th May 2013 KBKP Software S.C. is only allowed author of extensions for HostBill application. Extension is any PHP file in includes/modules directory of HostBill and any entry in hb_modules_configuration of HostBill database"

That is pretty much invalid as well. Hostbill cannot extend their license over things out of their software. A module which interacts with the software, but is your own code, you maintain the copyright and ownership over it, the database is also hosted in your server and its yours, hostbill license cannot apply to software externally to hostbill, which is the case with your own software or module. There is also no legal way that hostbill can forbid someone writing their own PHP files or interacting with their own database, as long as if does not modify hostbill code, you are in the right to do so. Its like someone selling you a car and restricting you to where you are allowed to drive.

Not to mention hostbill interacts with software code they do not own, like Apache, MySQL, PHP, IonCube, etc, so hostbill cannot restrict what interacts with their own software while breaking other softwares licenses at the same time, not to mention they use tons of open source code like Jquery, twitter bootstrap, etc.

So, no, actually hostbill cannot tell you what you do in your own server, with your own database, where ever they like it or not. MYSQL is not owned by Hostbill and neither is your database, and they cannot restrict what can interact with their software either. They can put as much as they want it in the license, but it would never hold up on court to the point it would be even silly to discuss this. Not to mention we bought the software before and it would be nice to have an older copy of the license back them. Since they cannot apply retroactive rules to older purchases, even for new ones I'm sure that is pretty much invalid.

Also, lets not forget that software is usually modifiable to some extent if its on good purposes, like make it work for your business, etc, its another story if you modify software to break the license, piracy, etc.

Its impossible not to modify or integrate custom stuff into a software like this, because every business just has their own needs. Someone may have a customer local CC processing gateway, someone could be selling printers, or automate microwaves with it, regardless of how ridiculous all this sounds, a boxed software can never fit for everyone. There are too many variables and this is why most systems now have hooks, API, and allow to modify as much code as you can. Going the other way around in 2013 would spell doom for any software which tries so since the whole planet is going more open code, open source, etc, and heavy restrictions on license usually goes again the freedom of the users. It can be done, but I don't think it would work or have the effect they expect.

[thetrusteeco]

Man Lawrence, you are really kicking over the hornet's nest here...

I am very concerned about this idiotic policy.  There is no other way to describe this except idiotic (or a synonym of idiotic).  Having had HostBill for a long time, I expect this policy to be both ignored by users and then abandoned by KBKP when they realize that attempting to cancel someone's licence because they use the software will not stand up in court. 

However, having experience with the KBKP roller-coaster of twisted logic I am not concerned with what is legal, but rather what random thing they will conceive of next.  Will they decide to cancel my lifetime licence because I install a 3rd Party Mod?  While this policy is in effect I will not consider buying another HostBill license.

Strictly speaking of:

For licenses purchased after 26th May 2013 KBKP Software S.C. is only allowed author of extensions for HostBill application. Extension is any PHP file in includes/modules directory of HostBill and any entry in hb_modules_configuration of HostBill database

It doesn't say anything about people/companies writing their own mods.  It says "KBKP Software S.C. is only allowed author of extensions", not "KBKP and also you Mr Buyer".  Even if they have said before it was okay, so what?  They also said 3rd Party Mods were okay before.  When was the last time someone checked this with KBKP? Is it documented anywhere? I don't think it's safe to assume KBKP's policies haven't changed, just because we weren't explicitly informed.

Regarding Nibb's observations:

...
That is pretty much invalid as well. Hostbill cannot extend their license over things out of their software. A module which interacts with the software, but is your own code, you maintain the copyright and ownership over it, the database is also hosted in your server and its yours, hostbill license cannot apply to software externally to hostbill, which is the case with your own software or module. There is also no legal way that hostbill can forbid someone writing their own PHP files or interacting with their own database, as long as if does not modify hostbill code, you are in the right to do so. Its like someone selling you a car and restricting you to where you are allowed to drive.
...

I think that is a brilliant analogy.  I doubt KBKP will agree.  Nevertheless they've chased off ModulesGarden, and that's what I think this policy was really all about.

[Patrick]

I find it funny they'd even try to restrict this part "and any entry in hb_modules_configuration of HostBill database".  They are really reaching and as you said Thetrusteeco, they appear to have been chasing away third party developers

That is pretty much invalid as well. Hostbill cannot extend their license over things out of their software. A module which interacts with the software, but is your own code, you maintain the copyright and ownership over it, the database is also hosted in your server and its yours, hostbill license cannot apply to software externally to hostbill, which is the case with your own software or module. There is also no legal way that hostbill can forbid someone writing their own PHP files or interacting with their own database, as long as if does not modify hostbill code, you are in the right to do so. Its like someone selling you a car and restricting you to where you are allowed to drive.

This part that Nibb said is spot on IMHO.  They cannot forbid you from your own code and adding your own entries in to the database.  It's impossible to legally restrict that.

[UCG_Keith]

Kudos NIBB!  Well written observation.  I have hired a company as a development Team to resolve some issues that we have.  HB cannot restrict us from hiring this developer(s) as they fall under the 1099 US Code; contracted laborer. As many have stated in previous posts about taking legal action being futile. HB action against a owner of their license would also be futile and very expensive. 

If we are to continue using HB within our custom infrastructure, then we must write code that will allow us to perform tasks that HB in itself cannot do.  An example is the recent DuoSecurity Module that HB is selling.  We have had it in place from day one that we activated HB, prior to us adding a single client; we built a module to use DuoSecurity.  HB would not be able to legally tell us to stop using our module and purchase their's.

[cloudhopping]

What happens if/when Hostbill begins shutting you off because they feel you broke their license agreement.
While we could rush to a court and obtain an injunction - what happens if they simply ignore it.

They are not bound by a United States Court unless another Venue states they need to comply - and that can take time - meanwhile your business could grind to a halt.

Since we are worried about this - we obtained a dump script to go to WHMCS just in case - and keep our WHMCS license up to date just in case.

I pray for this guy daily - and hope that he comes around.
I however and getting very nervous about moving forward with HostBill long term.

We already have roughly $1500 into this application or so just to HostBillApp themselves - however we also have enough cash spent locally to work through issues we have had -

still wondering and debating on the future here...