What are estimates for?

[nibb]

Yes this a stupid question but im sure others have them as well. For what exactly is the Estimate feature in Hostbill?

I mean what its real use, and is anyone using it?

Also, Lawrence, why are you making the verification answers this hard to fill out? They take more than posting.

What exactly is was the answer for:

Type in letters not numbers h3110

Really? I had to reload the forum several times to get something with more sense. This is getting very annoying for every new post.

[Lawrence]

The verification answers only need to be filled out three times when making posts. The correct answer would be "hello" for that one. Bots usually can't pick up that kind of stuff. My apologies if that one was confusing. I have updated the way that one was worded.

I use estimates when consulting clients, then when they agree to the services and pricing, I generate an invoice from the estimate. It's good for local clients and phone consultations. More useful for freelancers and high risk services that require the billing department to check every month / term. I have my uses, I'm sure others have theirs.

[Patrick]

I myself also run a consulting firm and computer repair.  I provide my customers estimates over the phone and honor the prices they are given.  If they go through with it, it's converted to an invoice and so on.  Estimates are 1\4 my business and very nice to have

[nibb]

I see, so its to create invoices not related to a specific product or service then?

I know it was an estimate about something, but not sure for what exactly as most invoices are related to products in the system. How is this different from just generating manually an invoice in the client account with a specific price?

I do this differently, the estimate is usually related to a specific product, so the domain is already created when he or I order for him, then I just edit that invoice and add manually the extra services. Or if its a complete custom invoice without a product related which is rate, I just create a manual invoice with a custom price.

[Patrick]

I see, so its to create invoices not related to a specific product or service then?

I know it was an estimate about something, but not sure for what exactly as most invoices are related to products in the system. How is this different from just generating manually an invoice in the client account with a specific price?

I do this differently, the estimate is usually related to a specific product, so the domain is already created when he or I order for him, then I just edit that invoice and add manually the extra services. Or if its a complete custom invoice without a product related which is rate, I just create a manual invoice with a custom price.

This is a basic example.  A company contacts me about rewiring their office. (network)

You'll create an estimate.  In the estimate, i charge $x.xx per ft of wire, # of staff, estimated # of hours.
So in order to get hired in our estimate, we'll provide them an estimated cost of the job. 

Here is a screenshot to give yo an idea.  The screenshot are random prices and put together quickly.  We would hand this to a potential customer as a competing offer.  If our offer comes in under, we'd be hired to do the work.  An estimate is not an invoice yet, but it allows you to expire an estimate and force someone to decide by a set time otherwise the offer is off the table.

[tallship]

I see, so its to create invoices not related to a specific product or service then?

It can be, although there's no real utility in doing that by itself.

Let's use Patrick's example for a minute. You're going to wire up someone's shop, and they've asked you to provide them with hosting too. So you create an account for them in the system, create the estimate, choose the package you wish to offer them for hosting from your inventory, and then a line item for the cost of pulling all the Cat5 through the fiberglass and asbestos LOL.

The customer likes it, and accepts the bid. So you convert the estimate into an invoice as per the terms of your offer. My terms typically include 50% down on labor and 100% down on parts (most of what I do involves network infrastructure, so considering the remaining 50% down is due and payable upon completetion of the project, I withhold entering anything but demo license keys on any software installed so that if they don't pay, the software, i.e., ESXi or ClearOS, etc., abrubtly stops working after the demo period for new deadbeat clients, if they turn out to be deadbeats).

What the customer has to do at this point is login to the client area, and Add Funds to their account amounting to that 50% of the labor, then I schedule the onsite time with the customer.

Now, what I don't know, and what Patrick might be able to shed light on if he's done this (since I haven't - yet), is whether the conversion of the invoice also launches their hosting package upon payment of the invoice. It should, BTW, but ya know..... we're talking HostBill here

Even if this works, I'm not sure if it will work when a partial is paid on the invoice. I know we can split the invoice once a partial payment is made, but not sure how HostBill would handle the inventory item (hosting package) in that particular scenario.

@Patrick: Considering the bug that was never fixed in the estimates/quotes system, somewhere I saw that I can disable sending out a pdf with the estimates.

Is there a way to limit that to ONLY the esitmates, and not the customers monthly invoices? People like to receive their pdf invoices with their notices (I know I do)?

Because if I'm forced to live with this bug, then all the customer will get when their quotes are sent out is a link to the online estimate which formats correctly in HTML - then, if they choose the "Download PDF" on the right, that particular pdf will actually render the line items (wrapping the text) correctly and include the company logo - but that's the only way I know of to keep it professionally looking. The pdf estimate otherwise emailed to the customer looks like total crap.

[Patrick]

I started offering free web hosting with some offers but at the end of the day most of the clients do not want it.  It's just one of those give aways you know most do not want.  So unfortunately i also cannot confirm if that'll work, but it'll be interesting to try it so i'll do a little test run in an hour or so to see how that works.

As for disabling the PDF, i have no idea.  The fact the word wrap hasn't been fixed is mind boggling but that's another subject.  I too like getting my pdf invoices.  I find it's a must. 

I just responded to an email from Paul also asking for Estimates in V3, so hopefully the more it's asked, maybe it'll become a priority to include on final release.

[iso99]

Big clients want estimates before giving them invoices. I use this for that purpose.

[nibb]

I see, but I assumed this was just for the admin side, your usage examples, means the draft should be also be visible in the customer side. Is this the case?

The customer can log and see the estimate?

Usually I call this a quote, not an estimate. And usually you do not vary end prices, once a customer accepted it. Maybe thats why I was confused with this feature. To be honest I did not tested it from the client side, to be useful, the estimate should be not only visible, but you should email it, etc. I thought it was just something temporary before the invoices, hence the name draft when its created.

[Patrick]

I see, but I assumed this was just for the admin side, your usage examples, means the draft should be also be visible in the customer side. Is this the case?

The customer can log and see the estimate?

Usually I call this a quote, not an estimate. And usually you do not vary end prices, once a customer accepted it. Maybe thats why I was confused with this feature. To be honest I did not tested it from the client side, to be useful, the estimate should be not only visible, but you should email it, etc. I thought it was just something temporary before the invoices, hence the name draft when its created.

http://www.estimate.info/article/5949/quotation_vs_estimate

[nibb]

I see, well usually in IT services almost everything has a price already, at least I never used estimates. I can pretty much point out what it will cost to provide something to an end client, particularly regarding services. If I was a wrong, I take the loss.

Not that I don't see a point on this, but I don't think its very common in hosting services or computers, its usually a quote with an exact end price. At least in my case.

I only see a value in the estimate if the end price can change and most customers would not be happy with that either. This probably is more useful with anything that includes human labor on it, like system admin time, or manual work in someone's office or servers, etc, which you don´t know how many hours it can take to be fixed.

[Patrick]

I see, well usually in IT services almost everything has a price already, at least I never used estimates. I can pretty much point out what it will cost to provide something to an end client, particularly regarding services. If I was a wrong, I take the loss.

Not that I don't see a point on this, but I don't think its very common in hosting services or computers, its usually a quote with an exact end price. At least in my case.

I only see a value in the estimate if the end price can change and most customers would not be happy with that either. This probably is more useful with anything that includes human labor on it, like system admin time, or manual work in someone's office or servers, etc, which you don´t know how many hours it can take to be fixed.

You're only seeing this software as a hosting software.  We use it for external services in my local commercial business.  It's used daily.  As the link i showed explains it's basically to ball park a price, give someone an idea what a cost, but being an estimate people will know it can go up or sometimes even come under if it's over estimated.  We cannot see behind walls if we're running wire, so if more work is required then it's added on.  A quote i wouldn't be able to change it because someone is going based on what i've told them is the cost.

Estimates are very popular and work very well in practice.  My customers like it, i like it and it's simplified life really.

Edit:

Put it this way, i can quote you cost of material up front, but i can only estimate the work required as i haven't seen behind the walls.

[nibb]

Thanks I was not aware you were using like that, for non hosting related stuff. I guess that is another use for Hostbill. I just used it for hosting related stuff, so that is why I found it strange to see that feature there and was not sure for what it was used.

Its clear now. And I think I could use that for custom jobs, like server management, etc, where you don´t know how much it will cost upfront, as it depends on the work.