Worst Case Scenario

[CRServers]

Currently, I am pushing, encouraging, and whenever possible practicing what I preach by replacing any non-core HostBill functionality with non kbkp developed software...

This is great!
I always wanted to have PHP source code modules so we can modify according to our requirements.
Is there anything available at this time?
Are they going to be published here?
I don't care if we pay for them, but make sure we get the code and the ability to modify at will.
Regards,

[nibb]

I agree with Patrick, their costs are not too high, there are more changes he gets bored and stops the product.

This is what I will do on my part. Maybe some others can share their ideas.

I will keep using Hostbill for now, but I will definitely will think twice about spending more time and money on it. This means purchase new modules or features, because the future is "uncertain", now all new modules and features are extra, so its actually costing thousands if you want all features. The business model is not trigger happy and to unstable. Instead of keeping things simple, they over complicate things.

Now, they said current customers will be respected in price and features, but how long until they change their minds? 1 hour? 1 day? 1 week? We know how unstable the prices and licenses are.

So I will use it until Blesta gets more mature. Then when Blesta is on a point that at least basic features I use are there, I will move to Blesta. It will not have all the things Hostbill has, but its going to be stable. There is no way to suggest new features to Hostbill or send feedback. At least you can report bugs now, but you cannot share your mind, voice and opinion about new features or functionality you would like to see build in.

A product without customers feedback has no future, since we the customers use it daily each day and know what is wrong or what could be added. Lets see a basic example. The Modernpanel is completely bugged. In the domain expiration the message that says how many days until a domain expires are cut off, and there is some things missing. The reason is that they design this things and just look at them. But on daily use, there are functions that need to work in the interface, and then you discover they are too big, or to small, or hidden or are gone. Because hostbill developers just know how the product works in their minds. They are not actually using it daily. So they need the feedback of hosting companies using it.

Eventually Blesta will get better, better, and better. The modules and stuff that I miss, I will custom build or try to develop it with other people together because Blesta is very open in terms of development and integration. Also Blesta, is 95%+ open code, only the license part it coded. This makes your future more stable. Hostbill is completely encoded, so if there is something not working, you cannot fix it, or you cannot integrate with your developer in case you have one in the future. Even if Blesta is gone tomorrow, just because you have access to most of the code you will be able to keep using it. I cannot say the same about Hostbill.

Unless Hostbill makes a drastic change, I see allot of people moving to Blesta. Hostbill is a good product, but people are just afraid to use it a this point, even when it has more features than any other competitor, people do not want to jump into a product that they don´t know what will happen tomorrow. Tomorrow he can charge for using the chat, or charge per account, or just remove hosting modules, and make you pay extra, or just say its 100$ a month now. Who knows? Nobody. Current users, depend on the functionality they purchased, if they are taken away this, like in licenses changes, or price increases they cannot pay (which is also take it away, since you can´t pay it anymore) the product will be useless to them.

When I purchased Hostbill I saw "This" and gave my money. Now "this" is completely changed to the point I don´t know what I purchased in the first place. Did I purchased the core? Did I purchased a core with some free modules and other are paid? They I purchased an owned license but I need to pay updated for no new features? What exactly did I pay? I don´t know anymore at this point. And everyone here has wasted so many time discussing hostbill and suffering over it, instead of running their business, that its just smart to move away from things that cause you grieve.

Some months back I had a smile every Friday when I saw new features, because I was happy for what I would get. Now, I just don´t even look the changelog anymore, because I know that everything does not apply to me and every new feature is build into another 99$ module which I don't have and need to pay. So to be honest, I don´t even care about upgrading anymore. If there are no new features for me. And bugs fixes are minimal to the point they are not fixing what needs to be fixed either because some are not just bugs that do not work, but functionality that is missing, domains for example have several critical missing things to it, to the point its more or less useless to handle domain expiration with hostbill.

This is my point. I don´t have a smile every Friday anymore, because nothing of that is for me anyway. Its only for those that want to keep paying 99$ for every single new feature. Feed the monster and you will see how this ends. When I purchased my license it said 12 months of updates included, not 12 months of bug fixes includes. So where all those new features and plugins? Because I don´t have them and need to pay extra for them.

Now it seems, even current modules everyone here uses, are extra as well. What does this mean? That we may get bug fixes but not new features either, so this is forcing you to buy them to get them. Now some of this are awful buggy. The dedicate server module still does not works after months, the logic in field is broken. 5 out of 10 sliders are also broken and ModernPanel and the slidepanel are also buggy to the point they have missing stuff.

Hostbill is leaking a lot of customers to Blesta and its ridiculous from a features standpoint. Blesta is not even released, its in Beta, it has nothing if we compare it to Hostbill, so why are people moving? This is something Kris should really analyze, his product has allot more features, and people are moving to something that is not even released yet. If he ends up losing current customers, he will not even receive bug reports anymore from us anymore. And bugs reports and feedbacks are what make a product, they are information to make it better.

[electric]

I think Blesta should hire Kris as a programmer.

The resulting product, and the company behind it, would be absolutely worth $999.

[John]

I think Blesta should hire Kris as a programmer.

The resulting product, and the company behind it, would be absolutely worth $999.

Yes!

[electric]

Hostbill is leaking a lot of customers to Blesta and its ridiculous from a features standpoint. Blesta is not even released, its in Beta, it has nothing if we compare it to Hostbill, so why are people moving?

The big attractions to Blesta are:

1. The company behind it is stable, and the owner understands how to communicate and run a proper business.  Paul is very open and honest in both private and public communications.  He isn't afraid to admit he was wrong about something, and he is also keenly aware of the value of his customers, from both a monetary and "business" perspective.  In other words, he's the opposite of the hostbill owner.

2. Blesta v3 is still in beta, but we've been testing it and I can say it is very attractive.  Not so much because it has a ton of features (it doesn't, yet) but simply because it is a solid core for what is a good "integration" platform.  I'm excited about the new version because it will allow modules of different functionality to be created by anyone.  This will (hopefully) allow Blesta to be used as the centerpiece for integration or a "central point of management" for all the various pieces of the hosting pie.  (ie: Integration of control panels, customer support, domain management, server infrastructure, etc...)

That's my 2 cents.  With regard to #2 point above, Hostbill has the same sort of capability.  It's designed well.  However, it is pointless because the owner of hostbill is a foolish businessman who can't be trusted.

[Patrick]

You able to share a screenshot of 3 of V3?  I've been talking with Paul over the last 3 years about the beta and debated on buying a $99 license "just in case" but i'm so tired of pouring money out to possible prospects i'm hesitant anymore.

[electric]

You able to share a screenshot of 3 of V3?

Sorry, due to the terms of the beta license I'm not able to do so. 

I've been talking with Paul over the last 3 years about the beta and debated on buying a $99 license "just in case" but i'm so tired of pouring money out to possible prospects i'm hesitant anymore.

For $99, it's a worthwhile gamble.

Once you have a license, you'll be able to get access to the beta discussion forums and from there you can see some screenshots.  They also have some videos of v3, too:

http://videos.blesta.com/

It's not as sexy as hostbill looks (especially the order forms), but I think at this point they are not so concerned about how it looks as much as how it actually functions.  The looks (fancy order pages, etc...) will come later, once the core is 100% solid and done.

[Patrick]

Sorry, due to the terms of the beta license I'm not able to do so. 
For $99, it's a worthwhile gamble.

Once you have a license, you'll be able to get access to the beta discussion forums and from there you can see some screenshots.  They also have some videos of v3, too:

http://videos.blesta.com/

It's not as sexy as hostbill looks (especially the order forms), but I think at this point they are not so concerned about how it looks as much as how it actually functions.  The looks (fancy order pages, etc...) will come later, once the core is 100% solid and done.

To be honest, a "sexy" look isn't what i look for myself.  I look for functionality, stability and a trustworthy company.  All of which was once hostbill.  Personally, i think making order pages look too 'pretty' is making it a little overdone.  You should want a basic, but nicely designed step by step process to place an order.  I don't think customers care too much about eye candy when placing an order for their blog.

So if Blesta touches these 3 areas and can at least provide a some what decent order page it would be worth considering.  Unfortunately the whole thing has been a little stupidly hush hush to gain sales based on their $99 model.  I like Paul, he has been honest with me personally via private emails, but i dislike the secretiveness of it. It's not a revolutionary software.  Give a quick 1, 2 and let the sales rush in as everyone is looking right now for an alternative.  I don't just give away money, so $99 even if we were to switch being a gamble is not smart business.

Just because 7 companies for example come out with what many say looks good but "buy now at this low price and receive v3 for free" doesn't mean we should give away money.  You as a business need to convince me you're worth my time, my money and our business.  That's how i look at it.  Blesta V2 is junk, i think Paul knows it.  Many use it, but even they do not like it.  They stick by it because of the stability of the business.  Unfortunately for Blesta, we're looking right now, this moment for an option, an alternative and they need to show us that V3 is worth the wait, that it's worth paying for right now in the early stages.

Not to rant too much about it but i think the way people conduct business these days is a bit twisted.  As a service provider, i need to show my customers why we're worth out salt.  If Blesta in this case would like to snatch the market as i'm sure Paul wants the growth, he needs to show why V3 is worth it as V2 is is simply easy to say no to.  Guess we'll see once V3 is released.  I've been told monthly license would also provide access to V3 beta for a month. 

are you possibly able to confirm this?

[electric]

I look for functionality, stability and a trustworthy company.
...
So if Blesta touches these 3 areas and can at least provide a some what decent order page it would be worth considering. 

Blesta v3 will be stable and is produced by a trustworthy company.  As far as "functionality", Paul has been very honest and open that the first production release of v3 will not have some desired functionality and modules.  I don't know what functionality you need, but I'm sure if you ask in their forums he'll reply with an honest answer. 

(And Paul has been asking for feedback about what functionality and modules are desired, so that he can put together the roadmap for what features/modules are to be developed in what priority after release...

I've been told monthly license would also provide access to V3 beta for a month. 

are you possibly able to confirm this?

Yes:  http://www.blesta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1900

(See the second post.)

[Patrick]

I'd continue this topic on Blesta but being hostbill forums i don't see it being appropriate so i won't ask any other questions.  Just watching some of the videos and rather impressed. Here's hoping hostbill smartens up otherwise like me many others may be leaving too

[nibb]

I contacted Paul and he replies very fast and was very honest about replies. He also then asked me which modules I currently use so he can make a note on them because they are going to develop them based on feedback, the ones more requested get of course higher priority.

I did tested the v2 demo and I don´t agree its junk. Its very, very simple, but its nice build and works very well. Its build years back I assume and its a very simple system.

But I do agree with Patrick, I also lost so much money buying one software here, one there, one on that part, etc, that I will not spend a dime anymore for anything until im sure it will have some future.

So what I will do is very simple. I will wait until v3 is released a production software, not beta, and see what it has, and see if their forums and community is growing. Then I will watch their released log and see if they take 6 months to add one new feature or if development is rather fast. If development is ugly slow there is no point in going to Blesta, I cannot wait 3 years until they have some of the features of Hostbill. On the negative side it took them years to released v3 on beta.

So what makes us all think this is going to be different once released? While v3 looks great. My biggest fair is that it will take months to develop every single new features, making it so slow...

Slow is nice, once you have almost all basic features and users need. But to get a new market you need to be competitive. And this means at least matching competitors offer in terms of functionality.

So even while I would save money by buying it now for 99$, I actually don´t mind paying higher for the end product. But first I need to see how development goes on from here on. I think this will take a couple of months, or probably the whole 2013. Based on how Blesta is doing in 2013 I will make my decision. Unless Hostbill dramatically improves, in both their product and as a company which so far I don´t think will happen. Of course nothing is said yet.

Nobody realizes that how fast this market can change. What happens for example if Ubersmith tomorrow drops to 1000$ and makes a Hostbill migration script? It will kill all of them, both Blesta, and Hostbill and WHCMS at the same time.

This is how fast the market can move. Of course not everyone would move, at least I would be suspicious because once they got you, they could just jake prices again. But my point is that just like Hostbill appeared, maybe another company enters as well.

[Patrick]

I contacted Paul and he replies very fast and was very honest about replies. He also then asked me which modules I currently use so he can make a note on them because they are going to develop them based on feedback, the ones more requested get of course higher priority.

I did tested the v2 demo and I don´t agree its junk. Its very, very simple, but its nice build and works very well. Its build years back I assume and its a very simple system.

But I do agree with Patrick, I also lost so much money buying one software here, one there, one on that part, etc, that I will not spend a dime anymore for anything until im sure it will have some future.

So what I will do is very simple. I will wait until v3 is released a production software, not beta, and see what it has, and see if their forums and community is growing. Then I will watch their released log and see if they take 6 months to add one new feature or if development is rather fast. If development is ugly slow there is no point in going to Blesta, I cannot wait 3 years until they have some of the features of Hostbill. On the negative side it took them years to released v3 on beta.

So what makes us all think this is going to be different once released? While v3 looks great. My biggest fair is that it will take months to develop every single new features, making it so slow...

Slow is nice, once you have almost all basic features and users need. But to get a new market you need to be competitive. And this means at least matching competitors offer.

This is my biggest issue with Blesta.  V2 they came out with a competing software but never did fully develop it to this day to even be remotely worth while for anyone other then automated billing or cpanel provisioning.  It was very basic and development was and is slow.  So V3 worries me because though it may be very nice at first, we all know it'll lack features at first and like you said, how long until more are added... if at all.  Development with bletsa has always been crazy slow and i respect Paul for not wanting to release a buggy software but when it's painfully slow, it becomes absolutely pointless to move to.

I can sacrifice some features if i know they are eventually coming, but i won't wait another 3 years for them.  I've followed Bletsa for many, many years and if history tells one thing - it's development is at a snail pace unfortunately.

[thetrusteeco]

I've been watching Blesta for years too.  Seriously, years.

The videos for v3 look good, but I won't consider moving to a billing platform again unless it has a third-party modding community.  With WHMCS I can contract at least 10 companies to mod.  I don't like to core limitations, but...

I do have high hopes for Blesta.  Great timing if Paul can hurry up.

[Patrick]

I've been watching Blesta for years too.  Seriously, years.

The videos for v3 look good, but I won't consider moving to a billing platform again unless it has a third-party modding community.  With WHMCS I can contract at least 10 companies to mod.  I don't like to core limitations, but...

I do have high hopes for Blesta.  Great timing if Paul can hurry up.

Unfortunately it's biggest issue is how slow development is.  Paul as a great looking product but development is a turn off, of the software.  WHMCS as much as i hate it does have the community behind it but it's also used by most of the script kiddies and not all are very serious in the business like most of us.  I don't tend to look "down" on anything but i feel that way with WHMCS these days.  So much trouble these days but the fact it's a physical presence with lots of support staff makes it attractive no matter what. 

If WHMCS came out with a nice looking client area with decent functional for customers i think we'd be already over there.