What's actually included in the hostbillapp license?

[Lawrence]

I do hope Kris has some plans in the future for "Bundle" packages at reasonable prices. I'm not going to be dramatic over this any further, so all I can say is I'm going to continue remaining optimistic. No use knocking the software if it does what I need given the grandfather status of most of us HostBill users. Hope something good comes for new users, so here's to hoping.

[Paul]

I just think we can't forget that we're not actually grandfathered in. We're stuck with "features" that are now orphaned. They will never get "updates" that fix them or improve features as our original agreements stated, as he's only updating the new "commercial" modules, that aren't even new, they're the same exact products that we bought and he has decided we no longer own or get the updates we're entitled to from our agreement. he's decided to redefine "update" as only "security patch" for us.

So NO, it is not appeasing that we've been saddled with orphaned code. It is fraud until we all have access to the modules we own from when we bought the software with included updates that were created pre-4.6.0 and are now extrapolated out into his App store as part of a new update, so that we will continue to receive all updates to the software and included features we purchased. Anything less than that is screwing us over from our legal purchases.

[Patrick]

I just think we can't forget that we're not actually grandfathered in. We're stuck with "features" that are now orphaned. They will never get "updates" that fix them or improve features as our original agreements stated, as he's only updating the new "commercial" modules, that aren't even new, they're the same exact products that we bought and he has decided we no longer own or get the updates we're entitled to from our agreement. he's decided to redefine "update" as only "security patch" for us.

So NO, it is not appeasing that we've been saddled with orphaned code. It is fraud until we all have access to the modules we own from when we bought the software with included updates that were created pre-4.6.0 and are now extrapolated out into his App store as part of a new update, so that we will continue to receive all updates to the software and included features we purchased. Anything less than that is screwing us over from our legal purchases.

I've been thinking a lot about this and i also do not think we're "grandfathered".  We MAY receive security updates but if anyone is expecting new features on each, it's yet to be seen.  I don't see them providing us access to all of it including new updates and features to each module.  Like i said though, it'll be interesting come Friday.  I'm looking forward to seeing what happens if a new feature comes out and we do or don't receive it.

[Paul]

We should most definitely, without a doubt be "provided" access to the modules that have been branched out that are the exact same modules that were part of the base featureset of the software we bought. So anything that was part of pre-4.6.0 that is now a separate "commercial module", we should have access to. They were listed as features when we bought it, not separate products or anything, features. Hell, the HostBillApp site still has them as "features". A separate commercial module is not a feature, it is an additional product. Fine, but we already own them.

If they want to branch it out and do this model for new customers, then by all means, that's their prerogative and it may end up a good idea in the long run, once he figures out the pricing of the modules a bit better.

BUT, I did not buy HostBill as some core thing with extraneous modules, AND I bought UPDATES included. Is 4.6.0 not just an update? Are not those the same modules? Are not the "new features" he updates them with not updates?! Or is 1 week it's "Live Chat", but when he adds the functionality of say, attachment sharing or something, it becomes "Live Share"? NO! It's still "Live Chat" because it was just an UPDATE, that we have paid for!!!

jesus this is infuriating.

[electric]

So who wants to pay $99 to ask what our old licenses includes and does not include?

lol.   

[thetrusteeco]

License related questions should be free.

As I understand things (and I haven't checked the weather in Poland, so I could be wrong), we should get all updates to the core and modules that we have included in our HostBill install.  If not, bug-reports on modules seem pointless.  I believe that KBKP is trying to rebuild their customer's confidence again, and I have a hard time believing they would be stupid enough to alienate the main group that is still using the software (AKA us).

If we're really not going to get the updates for modules, I suggest we collectively hire a company with a proven track record (like ModulesGarden) to code us some functional replacements.  We could then provide the modules as OpenSource to newbies (not sure if free violates the 3rd Party thing), and they could decide if they wanted to buy the KBKP module for $200 or use ours for free.  Ultimately that should motivate KBKP to do the right thing (or another colossally stupid thing).

[Patrick]

If we are not provided the modules as per our agreement then they broke some very serious laws and therefore other topics such as taking the software in our own hands would be an idea or a collective class action by hiring a polish lawyer. Of which I'm lucky enough to know one that does corporate law

[electric]

I believe that KBKP is trying to rebuild their customer's confidence again, ...

Based on what?  I don't know about you, but I have seen zero communication from Kris or KBKP.  It seems like business as "usual" for Hostbill.  Nobody knows what is going through Kris's mind.

Unless we see some kind of official announcement, we really have no idea what Kris is thinking.

Even if Kris were to add every individual module he sells into our account (so we see them all listed in our hostbill customer account area)... I would not trust that they won't simply disappear within a few days later.  We don't know what Kris is doing, or what are his plans, unless he communicates with us.

[tallship]

I suggest we collectively hire a company with a proven track record (like ModulesGarden) to code us some functional replacements.

This is what I've been saying for some time now, and it is the ONLY option I'm willing to consider.

kbkp has demonstrated some pretty shoddy coding, what with releasing of early beta (arguably alpha) software as production ready. and then either not fixing the bugs, or lying about it in their changlelogs when actually doing nothing towards fixing those bugs.

We could then provide the modules as OpenSource to newbies (not sure if free violates the 3rd Party thing), and they could decide if they wanted to buy the KBKP module for $200 or use ours for free.

Releasing those modules for free under the Artistic License or GPL is exactly what we should do. Everyone here keeps talking about hundreds of dollars like it's nothing to them to spend for quality, and that's exactly what we'll get when we commission open source development of HostBill modules.

As far as whether it "violates the 3rd party" thang, for post 4.5.8 customers, I couldn't care less, because it will never apply to those of us here now anyway, and I seriously doubt that customers from 4.6.0 and up will really care either.

Ultimately that should motivate KBKP to do the right thing (or another colossally stupid thing).

Another thing I couldn't care less about. They've done the wrong thing, and it's time they pay for that grave mistake, and gross injustice to us all.

Even if kbkp comes grovelling back on their knees saying, "Oh, please forgive me, I'm sorry I was a willie when I was dropping acid and went off my meds. I promise to be a good boi and never hold you all ransom again!", it will not be enough to forget, or to entrust ever again, the third party development approach should, IMO, be the track that is strictly adhered to for all future enhancements to HostBill core, regardless of whether some of us find it in our hearts to forgive him for those dastardly trespasses against us.

Anyway, in case no one has noticed (I didn't at first), this thread is actually a three page long result of a presales question LOL!

Therefore, I have taken this OT concept of developing our own 3rd party modules HERE in this new thread w/an actual proposal. I hope to see many of you there and really hope that we can put together this proposal in the short term, commissioning a third party developer to release our first (of many, many, dozens of) modules.



Kindest regards,

[Paul]

If we are not provided the modules as per our agreement then they broke some very serious laws and therefore other topics such as taking the software in our own hands would be an idea or a collective class action by hiring a polish lawyer. Of which I'm lucky enough to know one that does corporate law

so, uh, what are his rates like? i'll research court filing fees (provided google translate can handle it)

[Lawrence]

This topic has gone really off-topic. If you would like to continue this discussion, you can do so here.
- http://www.hostbillforums.com/index.php/board,18.0.html

Topic Locked.