who sale hostbill Owned UnBranded ?

[playsky]

i need one Licenses,
hostbillapp very very very Expensive!
so,i demand purchasing second-hand basis

[tallship]

You might find someone here who is interested in selling their copy to you. It's perfectly legal to do so, and if you can find someone here who is disgusted enough with this software you might even get a good deal too.

I would, however, suggest that you look at something that will actually work, like WHMCS, or enStratus

[CBlade]

Can i buy one cheap too?

[tallship]

Can i buy one cheap too?

Well, since we're on the subject...

I'm willing to pay up to a hundred bucks for an owned, unbranded license. A hundred bucks for one that includes the lifetime of free support, less, say, $50 bucks for one of the more recent versions that only include annual subscription support.

The only reason I'm willing to pay that much for another copy is because I'm already a HostBill user. if I wasn't, I wouldn't even offer that much for a copy of the software.

[electric]

just keep in mind that it would not be a surprise if Kris (owner of Hostbill) were to cancel the license that was sold.  While he can't stop anyone from selling their license, he can certainly stop the license from working.

Are you sure you want to risk your business using software that could be disabled at any moment?

[tallship]

Oh absolutely!

I'm only looking to use it for dev and speculation purposes - like it was pointed out in another thread here, the old licenses are worth more than the new licenses.

I suppose that can be taken a couple of different ways, but basically, it means (to me), that a new hostbill license is worth maybe 10 bucks. In fact... I think I'll pull the marionette's string again and suggest that he give his core software away for free and have it not include any modules, so that all of his modules are each sold independantly for a fee. All payment gateways, hosting and cloud control modules, templates, chat... you name it.

I suppose I'm also looking to run him into the ground with legal action if he dares to turn of a resold *owned* copy of his software Oopsie! I pulled his string again lol. So I'm willing to spend much more on legal fees than the defective software, as a matter of principle.

[electric]

I suppose I'm also looking to run him into the ground with legal action if he dares to turn of a resold *owned* copy of his software .

There is a saying that goes:

You can't squeeze water from a stone.

You can sue the hostbill company and win, but it's pointless because you won't recoup any money. If Kris has turned off his license servers, then you won't even be able to get your license to work again.  He will simply walk away from the business and laugh at any judgment you might win.

The one single thing Kris did correctly is to register a limited liability company and operate under its umbrella.  As long as that "protection" is there for him, he can simply walk away without any financial responsibility at all, despite how much money you throw into the legal system to win your claim.

[CBlade]

Well $49,95 its a good price, in fact $99 too, and "maybe" $49 per module?

but $599 for a crippled software, hell no!

[UCG_Keith]

There is a saying that goes:

You can't squeeze water from a stone.

You can sue the hostbill company and win, but it's pointless because you won't recoup any money. If Kris has turned off his license servers, then you won't even be able to get your license to work again.  He will simply walk away from the business and laugh at any judgment you might win.

The one single thing Kris did correctly is to register a limited liability company and operate under its umbrella.  As long as that "protection" is there for him, he can simply walk away without any financial responsibility at all, despite how much money you throw into the legal system to win your claim.

You are probably correct, however, there is the ability for an injunction which would make it a criminal offense if he would attempt to do this with malice.  As you stated, he is working under the LLC umbrella, however, if that same LLC has had the vail broken (easy to do), then the protection of the LLC is void.  Additionally, by obtaining a judgment; you could challenge from the courts to either invalidate the licensing server based on the company going out of business by shutting down the servers, etc.

I would hope that Hostbill wouldn't even attempt to stoop that low as that.

[tallship]

There is a saying that goes:

You can't squeeze water from a stone.

You can sue the hostbill company and win, but it's pointless because you won't recoup any money.

I don't know why people always seem to think it's about the money. The goal of the action would be to crush the turnip, not get blood from it - in reference to a southern saying

If Kris has turned off his license servers, then you won't even be able to get your license to work again.  He will simply walk away from the business and...

...never be able to sell another piece of software again under his own name. Not to put words in your mouth, but that's how I would finish the sentence

The one single thing Kris did correctly is to register a limited liability company and operate under its umbrella.  As long as that "protection" is there for him, he can simply walk away without any financial responsibility

No, he can't simply walk away, in order to be afforded the protection of the corporate veil, one needs to adhere strictly to certain things in order to ensure that protection - fraud is among many reasons the corporate veil can be pierced, allowing direct action on the corporate officer(s) who did not act in accordance with their fiduciary duties to the corporation.

But this is all hypothetical - let's say he pulls his head out and complies - all will never be forgiven, but much could be forgotten as water under the bridge. The mood here doesn't suggest that people will be so easy to forget what he has done to them so far, or the laws he has broken either.

[nibb]

To be honest, it would be also not surprise me if he cancels or deactivates the licenses regardless of what some assume here. Since I read somewhere he does not allow to resell licenses. So even if someone here assume its perfectly legal, I don't think the buyer would sue for 500$, less taking into account you would still end up with a no usable software until you try to resolve the issue.

To be honest, I would first ask Hostbill, since license questions are free to open a support ticket.

Personally I would not take the risk, not at least if you are serious about your business to find then out your license is not valid anymore.

[tallship]

To be honest, I would first ask Hostbill, since license questions are free to open a support ticket.

Someone did ask in in a support ticket, then posted the response in another thread this past week, which led to the whole discussion and a flurry of people looking up EU law to confirm that kbkp's policy was not legal.

[nibb]

Someone did ask in in a support ticket, then posted the response in another thread this past week, which led to the whole discussion and a flurry of people looking up EU law to confirm that kbkp's policy was not legal.

What we may or not consider legal has nothing to do with what Kris decides on the license ownership of someone. Go sue him in Poland for 500 euros which I hardly think someone would do.

Said this, there are tons of softwares which cannot be resold, even in the EU, so that would set a legal precedent. Trying to convert an owned to leased, or refuse to honor previous agreements is one things but trying to force a company to adopt a specific business model is another thing.

You cannot possible force any company to accept something. He sold license A to John Doe, no company is obligated to them provide services to Jim, then to William, which them again sells to Jenny which then again resells to Igor.

If that was the case, then we all would just use one license. One people is tyred, and sells it, then the other tries his business, does not have luck and sells is again.....

Even Microsoft and PS3 where trying to avoid reselling games, which I think is absolutely wrong as you buy the disc, but if they can do it, what makes you think a software company can´t?

Im 100% there is more than one software which I purchased which cannot be resold back, or at least requires approval from the company to change ownership. Hell, I even own a Kayako License, and they said to me I cannot my owned license either to someone else. And they are in the UK. They said I can transfer it only if its my own business, or related, but not sell the unlimited owned license to an external party. I would probably make over 10,000$ alone on that because I don´t even use it.

And this is just one example, im sure there are other softwares which cannot be sold. So im not sure where you guys go the idea you have the right to sell your owned license, like I said I have plenty of softwares which cannot be resold, both from European and US companies, try to sue them all if you think they are wrong....

[Lawrence]

I'm actually curious how this line in the Terms would play out.

You acknowledge that you are acquiring only a limited non-exclusive license to use the Software (the "License"). With no exceptions, KBKP Software S.C. remains the owner of all rights, title and interest in the Software and in any copies of it.

It is legal to resell software in Europe, but does this clause void it? HostBill is the exclusive owner of the software and all copies of it, and we're just using it. Not trying to challenge it, just curious.

[edit]

And just to emphasize, this would've come up eventually.

[electric]

I'm actually curious how this line in the Terms would play out.

It is legal to resell software in Europe, but does this clause void it? HostBill is the exclusive owner of the software and all copies of it, and we're just using it. Not trying to challenge it, just curious.

The judge would look at the description of what I actually purchased.  You can't sell a car and then include a TOS that says it is not actually a car, but a house.  A TOS can't void, change, or supersede established law.

In my case, the software was advertised as an OWNED license.  (I have screenshots to prove it.)  Under EU law, my owned license is considered my real property.  Thus, I am allowed to resell my license.